Curse

Nekretaal · May 02, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I like killcount. Played well, its a highly mobile dance where teams constantly vie for positioning, worry about ganks and dart in and out for kills.

The big problem with killcount basically amounts to: if one of the teams sucks, the outcome of the match is skewed. Its not fun and a total crapshoot to cam the spawn of a dead team that doesnt have the skills of teh other teams. Then there are smaller problems like leeroy the dead ghostly, but these are minor issues really.

The real problem is broken tower map. Whatever map victory condition broken tower, or the first non 1v1 map takes should it be removed, will essentially define the HA experience for all teams in HA who are not expecting to go on long halls-holding runs, including most fame farmers.

Personally, I like killcount late in the rotation on courtyard, you usually get great matches there... and I would revert broken tower to 1v1 and put the 6v6 version of scarred earth into the rotation... meaning that most matches would be some varient of simple annihilation until the first relic run on the 5th map... This would allow builders and fame farmers maximum flexibility to take any strategy they want, because the maps dont force their hand until the relic run on the fifth map.

sweat man · May 02, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

relic run is easy its sacred temples that i hate unless your playing a high skill team then its interesting, gate control can make or break a team. i agree that kill count can be good, but the majority of the time it isnt, problem is on courtyard so many noobs skip to. skips and ganking are the most problamatic thing in halls.
ha def needs new maps

masteroflife · May 02, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekretaal

I like killcount. Played well, its a highly mobile dance where teams constantly vie for positioning, worry about ganks and dart in and out for kills.

that's all well and good, but where does that put balanced and pressure builds? should we just completely eliminate them because of kill counts?

Selket · May 02, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

There seems to be less people playing HA than ever before.

I have never gotten more than one nop in a row, yet last night we got 2-3 on every map and broken and courtyard were ALWAYS 1v1s.

Death_From_Above · May 02, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Its simple, get rid of freeking kill count because that stuff just sucks and as one guy above me said. When 6v6 was here you had a few who liked it but will kill count everyone iv asked its been nope nope nope. Randomway is exactly correct, i believe anet just messed up so badly they dont want to admit it which only makes them further look stupid. Understandable if fixing HA would take a while but the fact is it wouldnt. They have been told over and over how to fix it.

I remember in fact galie going when she mentioned new mechanics would be comming out. ohhhhhhhhhhh you will love it guys. It came we hated it she disapears. It so clearly is anet just does not want to face the music. Then you get all these joeys who need to be locked up saying stupid stuff like oh be patient.

1 Year isnt pacient enough? Why dont you try lending all your money to a friend for an agreed day because you have travled and lets see if when you come back the next day an he hasnt given you your money back and he persists with this for a year. Whether during that period your going to say to yourself, erm just be pacient.

These changes are long over due and its even more insulting at how we have been told nothing and then were treated as if were dumb with properganda statments like. Anet is currently looking into HA. Seriously show me the person looking into these issues and i will show you a computer with no one sitting at it. A meer day of looking at the state of HA and asking around would have made you identify the problem.

I would joke before saying anet have the iqs of fish. But i now am actually starting to believe this sadly enough because fixing HA isnt exactly quantam physics.

Fact of the matter is from what i have seen is that anet are not willing to accept their in the wrong. Think about it, you make changes and change tem back 1 year later, how idiotic would you look. Anet obviously care more about looking good than pleasing their players. Also they are fed up with HA i believe and really arnt doing any work on it. Its more like on the end of a never ending que line. They tried fix it they messed up and made it suck even more. So there like forget it, they realised the damage they have done has already left a scar and all this talk about working on kill count is just to keep players off their backs.

I say this because if they where working on HA what more can they work on. Fix HA and dones correct?

If HA is just put back to normal (what works) which is alter capping and no relic run in halls. I will be content and this whole matter can be dropped because at the moment things are horrendously bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Kill count is better because Gaile thinks it's cool.

It should be clear by now that anet has a gross misconception of player's tastes regarding HA -- and by players I mean people who actually play in HA, not people who 'play' it on forums only.
I'm not one to jump on the Gaile bash wagon, after all she's just an employee of a company and as far as I'm concerned does a reasonable job relaying information to the community, all while wading waist-deep through bullshit.

Well im not one to jump on the Gaile Bash wagon as well. Infact i dont have any problems with her, as you said shes only a loyal employee, dont shoot the messenger shoot the one who sent the message and yes she is the messenger. My problem comes though when i find the person whos ment to be representing the HA community claims kill count owns in her statements, when everyone in the HA community who shes ment to be relaying information from says kill count stuck. Dear sirs and madams, that is where my problem starts. It then continues when i find the HA community is ignored with no information from Anet for months and the only way to get information from Galie is to go and stand in a pve area hopin she would say something about HA. To be honest, that makes me lose hope in anet and truely disheatens me. Its like when you find your lawyer has done a runner when you need them most because without them you will get 3 life sentences asap.

Nekretaal · May 02, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by masteroflife

that's all well and good, but where does that put balanced and pressure builds? should we just completely eliminate them because of kill counts?

Thats why my suggestion was to leave killcount on Courtyard. Killcount favors spikes but the victory conditions in Hall of Heroes dont. Without the low level fame famers speccing for killcount (they will always spec for the first three-way or four-way map), and without the hall of heroes holders speccing for killcount (they will always spec for the Hall of Heores win conditions... and with Killcount so late in the rotation (where the a noob team or some guy with heroes wolnt sneak in and ruin things for everybody), well...

If these happen, then Killcount can play to its strenghts as exciting and very strategic gameplay.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 02, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Killcount, strategic? If by that you mean a lot of fire eles and some sins and warriors (which you obviously do) go back to PvE. While I agree courtyard is the most plausible (A.K.A. absolutely ridiculous and worthless) map for killcount as there is the most mobility, it is still just retarded. Killcount encourages cookie cutter builds and massive AoE scrubfests, and forces you to run insanely offensive builds.

Does-it-Matter · May 02, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

Can the company explain what the point of making 90% of HAers miserable is?

Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc.

Quote:

Play HA, talk to the players, a HUGE majority (well over 75%, wants killcount gone)

Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please.

Quote:

Then why aren't they answering us now? Just because they simply say "we are looking into it", we should just leave it alone until they wake up and REALIZE there is a problem?

Do this:
(1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum.

(2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet.

(3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned.

(4) Multiply step 2 by step 3.

(5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day.

(6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc.

(7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time."

(8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4.

Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling.

When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day.

Quote:

When they start doing their job then I'll let them continue working

They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement.

Snype · May 03, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc.

By your responses I would guess that you hardly ever play Heroes Ascent. Please do not try to refute information you have not even thought about.

Quote:

Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please.

Psst...90% is "well over 75%" in case your running short on your math skills.

Quote:

Do this:
(1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum.

(2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet.

(3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned.

(4) Multiply step 2 by step 3.

(5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day.

(6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc.

(7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time."

(8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4.

Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling.

When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day.

Well go to the Heroes Ascent forum. Look what just about EVERY thread is talking about, then give me a list. Thanks...

Quote:

They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement.

Thats why they pay people to communicate with the players and go on these forums. I'm pretty sure they aren't getting payed for "good will".

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 03, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc.

Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please.

Do this:
(1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum.

(2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet.

(3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned.

(4) Multiply step 2 by step 3.

(5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day.

(6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc.

(7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time."

(8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4.

Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling.

When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day.

They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement.

It would take anet very, very little time to remove killcount and other lame win conditions from HA. They have to have the previous version of HA saved somewhere, it wouldn't take much time at all.

Does-it-Matter · May 03, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snype

By your responses I would guess that you hardly ever play Heroes Ascent. Please do not try to refute information you have not even thought about.

Don't be dismissive if you don't have the facts to back it up, please. This "information" I'm refuting is you saying "90%..." without actually stating how you arrived at that 90%. If we look at this as a reasoned debate, that would be a statement without proof, essentially hot air.

Quote:

Psst...90% is "well over 75%" in case your running short on your math skills.

Indeed it is over 75%, thank you for informing me! But my point was you are throwing out random numbers, and not even staying consistent with your lack of evidence.

Quote:

Well go to the Heroes Ascent forum. Look what just about EVERY thread is talking about, then give me a list. Thanks...

As I said, it's a non-random population sample. Can you show evidence that the demographic of posters in the HA forum resembles the demographic of those playing? In other words, not all views may be represented.

I know I didn't come to the forums until I actually had questions about the game. And it wasn't until much later that I actually began to post my own thoughts.

How many people joined up to complain?

How many people joined up to say they liked how things are going?

How many joined up to help others in the community?

As I said in reference to a question about polls. If you go to a mall and ask persons if they prefer Shopping at Home or Shopping at a Mall, you're going to get a skewed response.

And also with my squeaky wheel comment... those that like it aren't going to complain.

If you can show me hard evidence, I'm more than willing to change my opinion. But until then, I look at it as every other change. Some people like things the way they are, others want them their way. As with any update ANet does, there is a vocal minority that constantly rants about changes. Until you can show me that it's actually the majority and simply not a vocal minority, I will retain my point of view.

Quote:

Thats why they pay people to communicate with the players and go on these forums. I'm pretty sure they aren't getting payed for "good will".

If Gaile was getting paid to answer questions on forums, chances are they would be on sponsored Guild Wars forums, not fan sites.

She has a specific level of access and way of posting in game for her to do her job.

I no doubt agree that what she does is during work hours and benefits the company, but I doubt they TELL her to go to fan sites and say certain things.

What happens if she doesn't go to all the fan site forums? Does that indicate ANet favors some over others?

What happens if she decides to suddenly no longer go to certain forums in favor of others? Is she putting her job on the line?

I'm doubting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

It would take anet very, very little time to remove killcount and other lame win conditions from HA. They have to have the previous version of HA saved somewhere, it wouldn't take much time at all.

Oh, I no doubt agree that many of the changes within the game are simple changes of values or deletion of code. Just because a CHANGE is easy, does not necessarily mean the implications of it are.

Just because you (and other vocal posters) think it is "lame," perhaps ANet does not, after all, they put thought and design time into implementing it.

After all, the mix-max values of many of the skills most likely boil down to simple value listings (skill_min= value, skill_max = value2), and are there for EASY to CHANGE. How long do skill changes take though?

It isn't just "flip the switch, run the new build." They look at the implications of the change. The big picture, possible repercussions, etc.

You may think its VERY deserving of a change, you may think the repercussions are only beneficial, the developers may not.

They need time to have their meetings and run tests. This takes time, as they have MANY other things to examine and design as well.

Patience, please.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · May 03, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

They have had months to run tests. plus they don't know jack crap about PvP so they really have no authority to know wtf is going on in HA. Also, I would wager that his 90% statistic is incorrect, and it is legitimately closer to 98 or 99%. If you actually played HA, you would know that EVERYONE hates killcount.

Does-it-Matter · May 03, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

They have had months to run tests. plus they don't know jack crap about PvP so they really have no authority to know wtf is going on in HA.

Ok, just one thing I have to chuckle about, because I know when I design things I have absolutely no clue how it works. Ye-up.

I'd really like to know how you rationalize that one.

Bread Fan · May 03, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Nice move on your part to move this to Riverside but I bet it will still be ignored...

As I predicted months ago Anet would succumb to some of the HA players complaints and make it 8v8 once again. I also mentioned they would leave kill count even though it is blantant that skilled players running shut down pressure builds would suffer. Anyone can run a 3 2 1 but a lot of players enjoy a diverse build where each person has their task (besides button smashing) and kill count eliminates this possibilty.

The most drastic drop in HA was a couple weeks after heroes were introduced. Come on now this is a PvP area and you were playing against NPC's. Puff puff pass. A lot of people lost faith in Anet and my guild folded shortly after.

If their intention was to attract PvE players to HA and kill their loyal fan base they are victorious. Thing is most PvE players get a hard on from getting the l33t armor or weapon and have no desire to make the transformation to PvP. For the few to chose to do so they need to take their lumps and learn the skills as we all did.

To sum it up, what is the reasoning behind destroying something that once worked? Alliance battles was a flop so why bring it to HA? If you are going to have a PvE, PvP game at least have a representative for each community. An ignorant represenative only adds fuel to the fire. Not bashing you Gaile but the company you work for, as they should have hired someone to fill this void.

P.S - Ignorant PvE players are welcome to flame as you have as much right to voice your opinion since you bought the game as do I in the PvE whiney "OMG stop nerfing this skill!" threads.

GL HF!

Cass · May 03, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweat man

blabla I am Borat Ownz Yooo /in Electronic Empire [eE] and I got ganked by Mystic, who is nub blabla

also, kill counts, meh, i dont mind them, but i see how they disrupt the game, on the other i think capture points is more of a problem.

Your credibility = 0.

Complaining about Searing Flames teams when you are a eE Rit spiker yourself. LOL. Of course you don't mind kill counts, as your trash spike gimmick thrives on them, just as SF does.

Fact of the matter is that Killcount made pure spike (of the 5P/5N/5E flavor) predominant, which is boring. I had hoped it would fade over time, but sadly it is as hard to get anywhere with balanced as it was at the start of KC. The halls environment is possibly worse now than it was when IWAY was omnipresent and the Americans held halls 24/7 with it.

My vote: Just ONE killcount map should be reverted to classic altar holding. In addition, DP should be re-introduced in ALL maps. It's not pre-searing ffs.

uxxmall · May 03, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

The timer reseted 2 times in HOH today , waited 30 minutes to find an opponent, u figure it out how many ppl play HA now and how much ppl luv it now.
Thanks Anet

PS. Kill Count best idea ever (/couch) how much took u to figure it our aaaa 2 sec ?

sweat man · May 03, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

relic run is easy its sacred temples that i hate unless your playing a high skill team then its interesting, gate control can make or break a team. i agree that kill count can be good, but the majority of the time it isnt, problem is on courtyard so many noobs skip to. skips and ganking are the most problamatic thing in halls.
ha def needs new maps

Nekretaal · May 03, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by uxxmall

The timer reseted 2 times in HOH today , waited 30 minutes to find an opponent, u figure it out how many ppl play HA now and how much ppl luv it now.
Thanks Anet?

Well the lack of players is probably due to the fact that the "l337 title grinders" (mock them, but Heroes ascent would not exist without them) have been busy doing other things recently. On my friendslist, many very good pvp players on good pvp guilds who preferred to sit afk on nine-rings rather than play the actual game over the weekend. There's also the new titles for hard mode, and whatnot.

It's also because (and I'm going to get flamed for this) moving to 8v8 from 6v6 decreases the amount of teams by 25%, increases the amount of time to form the team considerably, doesnt make sense on the 6v6 maps, and the initial bump of interest from the switch is over now. I'm of the opinion that 6v6 was better than 8v8 with the new win conditions. The 8v8 fad died quick.

As for killcount. I've had very fun games on killcount, the teams just have to all be good, hence the revert-broken tower to 1v1, bring back scarred earth (with the lever), leave killcount on courtyard, suggestion. Blaming killcount for the fact that the HA metagame will always be stale based on the victory condition of the first 3-team map seems misplaced. Yes, the first three team map shouldnt be killcount, but if its altar capping, or altar holding, or any other map-based victory, the HA metagame will be equally stale.

PS Posters who want to bring back IWAY should not be calling any other builds lame.

Alleji · May 03, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nekretaal

PS Posters who want to bring back IWAY should not be calling any other builds lame.

People aren't saying "bring back IWAY", they're saying "bring back old 8v8 even if IWAY comes with it."

It probably won't, though. Because of the power creep we got with Nightfall skills, IWAY isn't viable anymore. Before Factions IWAY was a joke once people learned how to counter it. After Factions, IWAY started running OoA which single-handedly made it into a viable build again, but today we have so many non-enchantment defenses (paragons, rits) that OoA won't break the game.

Inde · May 03, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Please keep this civil. Any insult to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. Please keep posts on topic and contributing.